|
Do you feel that the false depictions of Japanese
Americans in the media during World War II ever made you question yourself
as a person or citizen?
I
think it made me angry. But, this is war time again. What could we
do? What could we do about it?
When did you discover your anger?
I think as soon as I saw those cartoons, or, Life magazine had that, "How
to tell the difference between the Jap and the Chinese." Things like that
would be—are upsetting. And then yet now, I've married a Chinese man who came from
China. It's interesting to me that, that ever came about because in my generation
that didn't happen very often. There was still this enmity because of the Japanese-Chinese
wars.
How did your family feel about you marrying a Chinese
man?
Oh,
I tell the story of, I was thirty when I got married and that's late
in that time. My mother thought I was going to be an old maid for
sure. I always said, "Well, she didn't care who I married just
as long as I got married." And so, it was acceptable for me
to marry Chinese. Whereas, it would not have been in most situations.
And the other way around, I had dated a Chinese-American fellow,
and his mother objected.
Whereas,
my husband who was born and raised in China, didn't come to this
country until he was almost through college. The only reason we ever
got together was because it was in San Francisco. He had lived in
St. Louis. We were practically neighbors but never saw each other.
When we did meet I said, "You're the first person I've met around
here who knew that Washington U. was in St. Louis and not Seattle".
So anyway, we got married and he was the only one in his family here. And, it was
how would his family react to us? His mother said, "She's not
Japanese, she's American." And they're the ones who had spent
their lives fleeing the Japanese in China.
Can you tell us about your wedding?
My husband came here with a group of a hundred as interpreters. He was an officer in the Chinese army when he came here. He had no family. His family was composed of the other fellows who had come with him who lived in this area. So our wedding was—I would say we were married in a chapel in Berkeley. The people there would have been just my immediate family—my brother, his wife, their two little girls, my sister, and then his friends.
Was there a celebration afterwards?
Yeah. We had a reception, alright?
Was the mutual friend who introduced you two to each other Japanese?
No. She was Chinese-American. It was unusual at that time for a Chinese-Japanese relationship.
You dated at least two Chinese men?
Two of them. Right.
Is there more to the story why you were attracted to Chinese-American men?
The Japanese fellows are going to see this? No! [laughs]
Is there something more to tell us about that?
You mean off the video, right? Why did I pick? Often, as I hear my Nisei woman friends complain or talk about their husbands, I would often say to them, “That's why I didn't marry a Japanese.” [laughter]
Were you consciously seeking an alternative?
I think so.
How do you think you were treated differently vs. had you married a Japanese man?
My husband's up there, right? [laughter]
How's his hearing?
It's pretty good.
If you know the Japanese custom to—and the way we were brought up—where the fathers are "it," as it were, made all the decisions and all that. The women waited on them. The Chinese and the Caucasians that's not that way. We are treated equally, more consideration.
Did you have to wait on your brother?
No. My mother might have. He being the only son, right?
How did you feel about the United States government
once you left the camps? Did you not trust it as much? What were your
thoughts?
I
don't think I even thought much about it. I think this is something
that we just kind of brushed aside, hid, didn't want to think about.
I think it's the next generation that really came out with this
reparations. Some people in my generation thought, "Forget it,
keep quiet", and where I was delighted that somebody voiced
their opinions. Because my generation, especially women as I always
say, didn't talk much.
You said earlier how when you went to the camps
you were "naive." Do you think that there was a point in
your life when you thought more about it and decided to share your
story?
I
think that's more in recent times. Somebody said to me that for a
while we just didn't want to think about it and so just kept it hidden.
And now, we're able to express our anger, or express our emotions,
our feelings about it. So that we want others to be aware that things
are going on that shouldn't be going on. I think that this is where
we're learning to express ourselves. But, it took a long time and
there's still, I think, women in my class who wouldn't talk about
it.
Do you know what triggered your ability to express
yourself?
Oh,
well that was my neighbor. She was a school teacher who taught fifth
grade, very much interested in Social Studies. As we got to talking,
she would say, "You need to talk about this." And so, I
started by talking to her class. And that's been about fifteen years
ago, and I've been talking ever since.
Did you keep anything from the camp besides the
bed sheet?
Oh
that thing? I don't think I've kept anything, I can't remember any
particular item.
Any pictures?
Pictures. When I went back and visited I think there was a picture, that's
about it.
Have you told your grandchildren about your experience?
I've
gone to their school, yes. I need to tell it more, and so this is
why my children now want me to write my story. I've written about
my great-grandmother that I had heard about through my siblings,
and now I'm just starting to tell my part of it. I want them to know
the story, too.
Were they surprised when they found out about
the camps?
I must have been hinting about it for a long time that I don't think they were
ever surprised.
After returning to the Bay Area, have you felt less of a Japanese presence?
I have not felt it. I know some farmers have, I know in some areas the Japanese have never returned. Like the city I grew up in, Alameda. It used to have all these little shops run by Japanese folks—laundry or grocery stores, barbers and all. You go back there now, there's one florist, and it might have been his father's. I'm not sure it was his father's. They just haven't returned. Not to those businesses. They're gone.
Why were you willing to come back to the place you had to leave?
Because we knew the weather was better here. That's the big attraction of the Bay Area. And my brother was here.
Where did you say your home was?
I was born and raised in Alameda.
Did you keep in touch with your friends from your
childhood after camp?
My
high school friend is still one of my dearest friends. I've rekindled
friendship with my old neighbors in Alameda because I found out they're
still around here. And the one who made the diorama is someone I
knew as a child. So, there's still that connection. I'm finding out
when I go out and talk, that there's somebody knew someone that I
knew, and it could be somebody up in Eugene, Oregon. It's been an
experience for me just to go around talking as I hear from others their experiences.
Do you still see among other Nisei who were in the
camps a resistance to talk about it?
Oh
yes. And then I can tell why because as they tell me their story.
Did I tell the story about the little girl who lost her father? She
lived here in Berkeley and her father was sick. An ambulance came
to get him the day they were to evacuate. She says, he just waved
goodbye to her, told her to be a good girl, and that was the last
she saw of him because he died here at the county hospital. In recent
times then, she's asked her mother—her mother came to visit him when
she was in the assembly center in Tanforan—"And how was that
possible?" we asked because you had to be guarded to go out?
Somehow, the home they lived in, the lady there invited her to come
back and stay with her. Then, she had to take public transportation
to go out to the county hospital and she did that. This person then
asked her mother, "How were you able to do that?" And the
mother says, "Everybody thought I was Chinese because all the
Japanese were gone."
How did your father die?
You
didn't tell little children what your father was sick of. He just
died. Whatever illness he had. The reason I said I knew there were
guards, one of the women who worked on the quilt was a nurse. To
get her certificate for nursing, she left Manzanar to go to Los Angeles
to take the exam. An MP escorted her.
Do you have any memories of your father?
My
father. Other than he made us a doll house, I remember one thing.
I think it was a very indulgent one. I remember riding on a mop while
he mopped the floor. I have a picture of me, real little, writing
things that you know I thought most kids had or have today, but I don't think they
had in those days. My mother says he was not very sociable, he never
went to church, didn't have friends come by and all that. But, as
far as we were concerned, he did a lot for the children. He loved
his garden, he had a lovely garden, and his fish, and plants, and
his birds.
How did he die?
Stroke, yeah.
How do you feel your experience in the camps has
impacted your life now?
I
was there only one year. How could it have affected me today? I guess,
all I can say is enough so that I can go out and talk about it. That
I think it was unjust. I'm trying to think of what else. Or, it's
given me the ability to speak that I never had before. Because, when
I was growing up, girls aren't supposed to talk. And especially when
you're Japanese, you only talk about good things. So, this has certainly
changed my way of dealing with things. Because I just feel it's important
to go out and speak about it.
Do you wish now that you had fought against what
the government was making you do? By going to the camps?
I
think now I would have objected. I think I wouldn't have gone so
readily. But, that's today. And, that's how the young people feel,
our children certainly, and my husband would say for sure he wouldn't
go.
Do you believe that internment is a possibility in today’s climate?
Yes. I heard that some money has been allocated to build five detention camps. I thought, "What for?" Then I hear what's going on with the immigrants, and I think you get the border patrol, and where are they going to put those that they find? Of course, there is the Mid-Eastern situation. When you look different, it’s easy.
How do you feel about the possibility of future internment camps?
I would fear that it could happen again. I think it so easily could. But how to prevent it? You have to voice an opinion. What could one do besides his opinions? Join groups that oppose it. We go on peace marches, but that's a different story. This becomes preserving civil liberties.
Do you think other adults you speak to understand that it could happen again?
When I speak to adults, it's usually my peers. They would say they had neighbors who all of a sudden disappeared. Or their students in the class disappeared. They didn't know what happened to them. Now they know.
What about your daughters and also that generation?
I think I had said at one time that I thought my daughter would have resisted. The very daughter I thought would, said she wasn't sure. Depending on what was going on.
But do you think they believe that this could happen again?
I thought it could happen again at the time of the Korean War, with the Chinese.
Did you talk about that?
At that time I was not talking.
How about with your husband?
I think he would have resisted.
So he believed that it could happen as well?
Yeah.
What year were you married?
'53. Korean War was about that time.
Did you ever have any conversation with your husband about what might happen if they collected all the Chinese?
They couldn't have. There were too many. But they would have collected specific ones, just like the FBI did.
He would have been a prime person to collect, right?
Yes.
Did you ever have a contingency plan?
No. We were just hoping it would never happen. No. No contingency plan.
What has been the most lasting part of internment for you?
To me, I think it’s been this public education process. It’s really to get the story out, because we are all fading. The other thing is not enough women talk. It’s easier to get the men to talk and to write than the women. I have definitely found this out working on the quilt, because they didn't even want to work on the quilt to begin with. Then I have said, "Alright, a quilt is not complete until you've signed it." They haven't signed it. I said, "Could you at least put your initials on it?" You'll find initials on it. They find it still extremely difficult to talk about it. I think working on the quilt was a good thing because they were at least able to talk about it, talk about the experiences. I think it was a healing process for them.
Did some of them cry?
Yes.
Did some of them laugh?
Oh yeah. Quilters do both. There was a video made of the process of doing the quilt. Some stories were sad and the video producer really wanted it, and there were tears while the story was being told. But in the background was all of us laughing and having such a good time. She says that she had to take us separately into another room.
Do you have any final message about your experience
to folks that will see your story? Or a part of your story.
Yeah.
Well, I tell the young people that this is your grandparent's story.
Talk to them about it, ask them questions about it, how they felt
about it. Because, so often in the Japanese community they don't
want to talk about it. And so, I tell little ones, "Go ask your
grandparents, what did you eat? what did you do?" You can't
ask general questions because they'll not answer. But ask specific
ones and then maybe you'll get them to talk. I've heard too often
where if somebody will come up to me and say, "My grandmother
had that experience but she won't talk about it."I want people
to be able to talk about it and tell their story because each one
has a different story to tell.
What's so important about this story?
That
we don't want this to happen again. To anybody.
Photo of interview group.
|
