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While you were at camp, did you ever see anyone
leave the camp and come back?
I
was one who did because I was a teacher's aid and the young teacher
that I was the aid to was just fresh out of University of Wyoming.
This was her first job, I think, teaching. Her in-laws to be, her
father in-law to be was the hospital director. So, I was invited
out with them to have dinner. I guess, it was in Powell. So, I could
go out. The others, if they went out though, went out to sugar beet
harvest. I don't know if they went out to do anything else other
than that to help with the harvest because all the caucasian men
were either drafted, and so there weren't any farm laborers to work to
harvest the crops, so then they would have the young men go out from
the camps.
Were you closely guarded when you left the camps?
When
I went out to dinner? No. Not at all.
Did you have to get a permit signed?
I must have. Well he's the hospital director so he could get it for me.
Was the outside world different than when you
were at home? What was it like leaving this camp?
Leaving the camp, I went out to St. Louis. I think that was the scariest time
for me because we're supposed to be in there for our protection and here I
am this young girl going out all by myself. I left camp and went to Billings,
Montana. Spent the night there, and then went to—took the train to—Lincoln,
Nebraska. Then from there to Kansas City, and then on to St. Louis. And did
I tell you in the class about my experience on the train? In those days, the
trains were very, very crowded. And, a lot of soldiers. Anyway, it was crowded so
I sat on my suitcase, didn't have a seat. And, a young soldier got up and gave
me his seat. What was I afraid of then after that? So, everything was fine.
What was your first memory of being out of the camp?
The first one was an experience that really gave me a feeling of how giving people can be. It was on the train, out of Billings, and in those days the trains were crowded. There was no such thing as reservations, you just got on. And there was no seat, and I sat on my suitcase. It was a young American soldier who gave me his seat. I thought, wow. Wow. Here I am, out on my own, and who was it who helped me?
Did you feel more confident after this?
Yes, yes. I think knowing that there were people willing to help.
It was pretty scary though, at the beginning, I would imagine.
Yes, yes, yes.
How were you able to leave camp and go to St. Louis?
You
get special permission.
Was there someone there?
There was a girl that I had known in Japan—was born and raised in Indiana—who
had gone to Japan because her father was the eldest and he would inherit property
so he took his family back to Japan. And so, she was there and she came back to this
country on the very last boat before war broke out. And, she had a relative
in St. Louis so that's where she was. So, we had been corresponding all this
time. She wrote and said, "If you can, come on out and come stay with
me". We exchanged letters, and those letters are in the National Archives
and I've got a copy of it. A copy of my letter from the archives. But anyway,
that's how I was able to get out and go over to St. Louis. She was there, I
had a friend there. War Relocation Authority needed to know that I was going
someplace where I would be cared for. I didn't have a job, but there was a
place where I could go.
Did you leave behind your family?
Yes.
My sister was still in high school so she stayed with my mother.
In the camps?
Yes, until she finished. Until it was time almost, I guess, the end of the
war, and they left camp then and came out to St. Louis.
Did you ever visit them when they were in the
camps?
Yes I did. I can't imagine doing that now, but, my first Christmas away I was
terribly homesick. I thought, "How could anyone be homesick for camp life?"
But, it's family that counts, and I did go back and visit them. I think, "Why
would I want to do that?" But then, it was family that mattered.
Did you know others that were able to go in and
out?
I
don't know. I don't know.
How did you finally get out, get the permission to leave?
I must have applied for it. There must have been a way that they were allowing people out. I didn't go out as a student, I went out because I had this friend who, just because she was there, because it's after I went to St. Louis, there was an office of the War Relocation Authority, they called it, the WRA, and I went there to look for employment.
Were many people applying to leave camp?
I don't know because when I left I was by myself. So here I am, in camp for my protection, and I'm leaving camp to go by myself to travel to St. Louis. So that meant I had to go out, took a train to Billings, Montana, spent the night there, then took the train on to St. Louis, which went through Lincoln, Nebraska, I had to change. Then I had to change again in Kansas City. So here I am, traveling all by myself.
What did your mother and your sister think of you going out on your own like that?
It was all right.
Why didn't they go out with you?
My sister was still in high school. I could go out and find work, and try to get to classes, whereas, what would my mother do, who was ill? And my sister, who was still in high school. So they opted to stay.
Were they able to leave?
They left later when camp was about to close, so they wanted people to leave. That's when they left.
When you reached St. Louis, were you at all intimidated by being alone in a big city?
Not at all. Not in St. Louis. In St. Louis, they didn't know Japanese. We went around saying we were "Orientals." I worked at a medical school, I was fortunate. Because I was at a school which was a private school, many Nisei—fellows and women—were there too. So we would all say we were Orientals and get away with it.
What did you do when you got out to St. Louis?
I
was able to find work at the medical school as a technician in the
bacteriology department. So, I could do that and take classes at
Washington U. Washington U. being a private school at that time, I
could take classes there. There were schools, especially the state
colleges—state universities—where there were army and navy programs.
And so, there would be these people in uniform going to classes so
that the Nisei then were not allowed to go to those schools. However,
Washington U. did have that program but it was a private school,
so that I could go there. And, there were a number of Nisei there
in the medical school, dental school, on the main campus, also. It
was one of the few schools, I guess, where that was allowed.
Did you find any obstacles finding jobs after camp?
Not
in St. Louis. There was, however, one issue. I wanted to work in
a lab and there was a paying company, and I was to be interviewed.
The chauffeur came to get me, and the chauffeur was Japanese. He
said to me, "If I were you I wouldn't take this job." He
said, "They really don't want you in the lab, they want you
going to the house, take care of the children." That to me was
quite an experience. The guy never expected to see a Japanese working
in St. Louis. He was not one who had been interned, he was someone
who had lived there. But, this is what he said to me, "Don't
take that job." So, I didn't. And I'm told, you know, "Eventually
there will be an opening in the lab, and in the meantime you can
work in my house."
What was your occupation when you returned to the Bay Area?
I worked at Shell Development and Analytical Lab.
How long did you work there?
Eight years.
What was your first job when you got out of the camp?
It was working in the Bacteriology Department of the Medical School. Washington, they call it, Washington U.
What did that job involve?
In the Bacteriology Lab, you have media that you grow your bacteria in, and I was a media maker. I prepared all the materials for the medical students, for their class.
Did you experience any racism at your new job?
No.
That's surprising, that you experienced no racism at all.
In St. Louis, in those days, it was the Afro-Americans who were segregated. We just didn't get any of that feeling. That's when I first felt what it was like to be segregated, not me, but others. I was in a situation where I got to know some of the Afro-Americans, and knew that they could not go to a restaurant with me. Couldn't go to the hospital, unless it's a hospital, just for them. Couldn't go to the college, unless it was just for them. None of that. We were treated like, special treatment, as it were, because we weren't different. They didn't know the Asians. It's an entirely different atmosphere from the West Coast.
Did the African Americans ever tell you about the racism they experienced?
They didn't have to tell me.
Did you ever hear them express their own opinions towards it?
I'm trying to think, because in the department where I worked, the woman who did our dishes was Afro-American. My helper, my aide, was an Afro-American woman. If anything, they wanted to know more about me and my life, because they had never come across an Asian. There was, however, in that same department, an Asian woman who was working on a doctorate. There was a professor who was from Japan. If anything, I could talk with the women in the department, and we could exchange ideas, we could exchange how we were treated. It was an eye opener, for me. Then this friend who was working on a doctorate wanted to marry a Caucasian man, and they couldn't get married, not in Missouri. They went to Indiana.
Because she was African American?
No, she was Japanese.
Oh, Japanese American.
Yes, but they weren't allowed to marry in Missouri.
Did you ever feel any animosity towards Caucasians after you got out of camp? Any distrust?
Of the Caucasians? By whom?
Did you ever feel any animosity towards them?
No. No. It's as we said, on this quilt, I think it says, "shigataganai," meaning it can't be helped. That's the way it is. So it's all on our quilt. "Gaman," and "shigataganai." Now you've learned those Japanese words.
Can you tell us some more about your brother?
Yeah. He served in the army. Then because he knew some Japanese he taught military intelligence at the language school in Minnesota. When war was over he came back here to finish his schooling and went to Cal. That's why he was here.
What do you mean by "housing project?"
Housing project. During the war, Kaiser Shipyards had a housing project right out here for their shipyard workers. Then when a lot of the workers left, that space was open. The Japanese, as they came back to this area, didn't have a place to live and that was open to them, the Richmond housing project. And then there was one in Berkeley, it was called Cordinesez, I believe. So, until they could find more suitable housing, they lived there.
Do you know what the rent was?
I should know, but I don't. It wasn't much. I was thinking, was it fifty dollars? That sounds about right. It was a one bedroom. I think now, "My goodness, there was my brother, his wife, two little girls, my mother, and I came!”
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