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5-Poetry and Conclusion

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When did you start writing poetry about your experiences?

About 20 or 25 years later

When did you write this one?

Well I'm not sure the year. I think I wrote this while I was on a trip to Israel. And we had gone to Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial museum there.  I didn't know that I could write and I'm glad I could get some of this out of my system. There's a line after each stanza that is part of our kaddish is a prayer that you say in memory of the dead.  It's unusual that this prayer was written in Aramaic and it doesn't say anything about the dead. it's just a prayer that praises god. It's very traditional among Jews to say kaddish for those that are gone. So I wrote this poem, it's called "Inside the Gates."

Can you explain the significance of Shemah?

Yes. Shemah is the basic prayer of the Jews. It goes "Shemah Israel Adonai Echad"—Here O Israel Lord Our God Lord Is One. The meaning of that is its a monotheistic religion, just has one God. And it's traditional that you say the Shemah you're supposed to say it every morning, at night too.  But it starts with the first word shemah and then another word there, what where the words I learned in hader that's a Hebrew school, after school you would go to hader and learn that. Then there was one other word I don't think

varum varum—that is German for why, why. " varum varum I can't understand." So I reached back into my memory in writing this and used the history of what went on in the camps. I think there was another one that I wrote that...

I think this poem kind of reflects my general attitude as an adult. And it was a result of my experiences in the camps, because I'm not a happy guy. The title of it is “I'm afraid/afraid/afraid.” poem, it's called "Inside the Gates."

When did you write that?

I don't remember.  I've gone through many, many oral projects and filming—the Spielberg filming took twelve hours and 2 days. I've given these speeches in high schools for all my life. I don't know, I think I'm growing up. I wrote this book to tell my grandchildren about who I am, and what I did, and what I hope for them. And I re-read that book last week, before you got a copy of it and it told me something about myself. It told me that all the work in writing the whole story of my life and the camps was building a man, building me, so that I could have something, a goal in life, something to do, and work for a people, and serve on 20 odd boards in San Francisco, and nationally, and Israel. I'm not trying to be a hero, but I know that every board I went on I just said to myself; the stronger our Jewish community is, the stronger Israel is. And maybe next time they won't do this to us. Today is probably the worst day that I have ever had.

Today is May 3rd do you know where you were May 3rd, 1945?

Yes I do. I was in Ebensee at that camp. It was before we pulled out down to the pacific. It was just about this time of the year.

In thinking of that anniversary does that bring back memories

Just bad memories, just bad memories. I've always said that when I was talking to the students in the schools and all the different organizations I've been active in, I was convinced of one thing. You that can't tell people about the Holocaust. There is no way of conveying what I say to your ears that you can fully grasp the totalitarianism—of this whole thing that happened in the world, this thing, this thing—and there's that bad word again—there is no way you can tell anyone about it and be convinced that they are hearing, and they are feeling the same pain that I have here. But I hope that some people, some place, someday will try to get a little bit of that and understand that we can't make a difference between people that all people are the same. I don't care what color, religion, or whatever they—I don't care if they just held me up. They're all the same.

What makes this interview and this moment in your life talking about this harder than its been in the past?

I have these pictures sitting by me, and I have two pictures, and we gave a party for our 60th anniversary, March 30th.  This is a picture of my whole whole family and how wonderful it is to reach this point in my life. I'm 82 and I don't know how much longer we have and we're going to keep, keep trying to go. And this other picture is of my wife Thelma and I, and our seven grandchildren; who are all scattered throughout the country and universities and developing their interests and their lives. I just think how prosperous I am, and how lucky I am to reach this point in my life. I think between these two pictures it just tells me how great life can be and how blessed I am.

Lets wrap it up. I am done.

Thank you very much.