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Play Movie8 - Effect on Life
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Can you think of an example in your life where you challenged somebody and it made an impact?
Yes I did. I've done it frequently. We were on a cruise ship two years ago going to Alaska. We were assigned to a table. There was a man at the table who - he knew I was in the army - had been a colonel in the army. He was a jolly old guy and he told funny stories. The night before the last night, he told a story, an anti-Semitic story about a dog in a bar. The dog tried to "Jew down" the bartender. I just looked at him and I held it back. I could hardly sleep that night and the next night I got him alone and I took off. I tried to destroy this man. For Niso and everybody else. I said "The army made you an officer and a gentleman and you failed it both. How dare you tell a story like that. I thought we left that in the concentration camps." This guy put his head down and I just took off on him terribly. I had to. I felt that I can't go into schools and tell kids to put up their hands and say "don't tell those stories anymore" if I didn't tell that man what I thought of him and why. I told him, I used probably the same words that I just said to you. That "you can't do that anymore," and he walked away and went back to his cabin. But I've done this other places, too.
What did you do after you left Ebensee? Did you come back to the U.S.?
Not right away. We went down to Marseille, France and the war in Europe had been over in May. I think it was May 12. Middle of May, because President Roosevelt died April 12 and it was the following month that we had peace in Europe. We went down to Marseille and waited there two or three weeks. They put us on a ship to go to the South Pacific because we were going to fight in Japan. We were going to be replacements down there. We were out at sea for about a week going to Japan and the announcement came over the loudspeaker one after another. It said "They dropped the atom bomb'—this was in September of '45. "They dropped the atom bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and Japanese have surrendered - unconditional surrender - and we're all going back to New York." With that, we all went crazy on the boat. What a relief; it was all over. We came back, went to Richmond, Virginia and landed there.
Describe that moment or the days afterward.
What went on in that ship. We're not supposed to have any alcohol. There was more drinking on that ship than I've ever seen in my life. These guys were bringing home all kinds of whiskey and champagne and everything else. We were able to really celebrate. We didn't care who got seasick or how many meals a day we had. We just got back and it was the greatest time of my life to get through with that.
What about when they told you that you were going to the Pacific?
Well we were going to the Pacific and that's just tough. We had two officers in our company. One was a man named Tokyo Yoshikawa who was a doctor went through med school at Stanford and the other was a dentist, Masada Okuda, and these two men were Nisei, of Japanese descent. They called them out in front of our company and they said that they were being transferred out to German occupational forces. We all knew why because they were Nisei. This was again discrimination. I wrote an essay about that - I've been doing a lot of writing in the last five years - described how the next morning when they were leaving in the Jeep, we all lined the road on both sides and saluted them on the way out. We told them how we really felt.
Once you got back to the United States and came home, what was your first reaction being with your family, being in San Francisco?
Yeah, it was great, it was wonderful. My mother had three blue stars in the window on a little flag. Each one was for a son in service. Many homes had replaced some of the blue stars with gold stars because their sons were killed. That's when I came home and found out who of my friends were killed and who were wounded. I did a very stupid thing. I didn't go back to college then. But I went back in 1958 after we were married and had three children and I had a new business and a mortgage on a house. I decided that I had to go back to school. My wife was so supportive. I went back to Berkeley and talked my way back into the school, business administration and went to school every other semester as a full time student. I finally graduated in the class of 1960. I started off in the class of 1945, but I knew what it meant to get an education.
Because of your experiences in the war and living in the Sixties during segregation with all the racism how did you react and how did you fight back?
The war made me quite a liberal because I saw what persecution looked like first hand. I guess from the day that I walked into Ohrdruf in early 1945, that minute I became a liberal. I've always been for the underdog, for the oppressed, for kids that didn't have enough, and I still feel that way politically and socially. I'll always fight for the underdog.
When did you first tell the big part of your story of Ohrdruf through Ebensee? When was that? When was the first real recounting of it? Can you talk about that?
Fifteen years later. I was then about thirty-five. I started having dreams about it and was very upset psychologically and went into therapy for a long time, long time. In about 1975 or '79 I was chosen to go to Washington D.C. to the State Department. They had a liberators conference. I'll never forget when I was standing around a group of men who had been liberators. They chose two from each state and some from overseas, behind the Iron Curtain even. I thought I was hearing myself talk because these men started saying "You know, I didn't think about this for ten or fifteen years. I never talked about it, I never thought about it, and I just went on with my own life. Getting married, having kids, going to work, getting a job..." Then all of a sudden it hit, and it hit me at about the same time. When I was about thirty-five and I think that's when I really got involved in more organizations and more work for the Jews here and in the state of Israel.
Would you call yourself a Zionist?
I was a Zionist at four years old. I've been a lifetime Zionist and I still am.
Further Effects
If you were to sum up your whole experience and it's impact on your life, how would you do it? What would you say?
The impact on my life has been that the minute I walked into Ohrdruf I became a neurotic. I've been neurotic ever since. This is something that you don't get over, you don't get over it. It just stays with you and stays with you. My wife won't let me watch a war picture because I have nightmares.
About ten years ago I got involved in the United States Holocaust Museum campaign. I was chairman of Northern California. We went out and raised a lot of money in a very short time. I used to go back there when the museum was being built. I never expected that they would get two to three million visitors every year. They have outreach to school kids and teachers and the public. It's become on the "must visit" tour of going to Washington, D.C.
I have a very interesting story about this, I'll take a minute to tell you. There were three of us on this campaign - that ran the campaign - and I was the chair in San Francisco. I set up an appointment with a man in Silicon Valley and I asked these two other people to go to them. Billy Lowenberg was one of them. They came back and I said, "Did you see so and so?" I won't say his name. They said, "Yes." I said, "Did you get a pledge from him?" They said, "No." I said, "Did you suggest an amount that you would like him to contribute?" – which is a way of solicitation. "No." I went home and I was really disgusted because he was a big Silicon man [Silicon Valley]. About two days later I got a letter from him. He said, "Mr. Colvin, I am pleased to tell you that my wife and I are contributing $500,000 to the Holocaust Museum." I called him. I wrote him.
Then after that we had an event at the Legion of Honor. We had all the military come in with the flags of each camp and put on this big dinner that we invited all the contributors to. He got there a little bit ahead of time. I took him into one of the galleries, I asked him if he would go in and gallery with me. I said, "Mr. so and so, I have been soliciting money and raising money for many years, but I've never had this happen to me. Do you mind if I ask you, did you have relatives that were killed in that concentration camps?" He said, "No." I said, "Did your wife or your friends, did they have relatives there that were killed, that I saw over there?" "No." I said, "Well, I am going to ask the bottom line question: Why did you do this? Why did you give us a half of a million dollars?" He looked at me, eyeball to eyeball, and he said three words: "Because I'm a Jew." He turned around and he walked out of the gallery. Think about that for awhile. It was the most beautiful, the most sincere... It really got to me.
If there is one aspect of your story that you would like to be passed on or one thing you would like us all to take, what would it be?
Tolerance. Tolerance. Try to love everybody because I saw what happens when love goes down the drain and people become barbaric and animals. I saw the results of that. Try to get along.
What was life defining?
Life defining? Alex, this whole story defined my life. From the minute I saw the first pile of naked bodies, that defined what my life was supposed to do, was to try to help, help the Jews - help everybody.
Is there going to be an impact on you tonight when you go to sleep?
I'm afraid there will be.
Can you talk about that in terms of your experience talking about it, and what happens to you afterwards?
I've made so many films and recorded so many audios and made so many speeches over the years, and people know who I am. My friends know who I am and what I stand for. This happens to me every time I talk about the Holocaust. Every time I've gone into a school, I know have to do it. I know I have to do this today. About six months ago, it started getting to me a little bit more than ever. I said to myself and to my wife that I can't do this anymore. I get very upset about it. I get nervous. I have dreams about it at night and I'm disturbed and it disturbs me during the day. But I know that I have to tell my story.
