|
Have any of your children visited Germany?
Yeah,
I took them once, I wanted them to see the house I was born in. We
were in a car because we were in Holland, we were visiting – I still
have some relatives in Holland – and the kids were so uncomfortable.
We got there about ten or eleven in the morning and the plan was to
have lunch somewhere in the town where I was born. And the kids said, "Lets
get out of here," they didn't want to stay there, they could feel
it even though I tried not to build hatred into them. I didn't want
that. They couldn't stay there. That was the only time they have been
there and they have no desire to go there, so far. Now that doesn't
mean–some people go there and some people have made new relations–that
they're all as bad as they were then. I'm not saying this. I'm sure
they are decent and nice people today. But the memories are too heavy.
So it's better for me if I stick around here and I go to Hawaii sometimes.
Question – Can you remember the first time
you told your story in great detail?
The
first time? The first time I talked to a class happened to be at Bishop
O'Dowd because a good friend of mine, a colleague and good friend of
mine, he says – he knew a little bit about me because we had
known each other for a number of years – and he says, "Would
you talk to my son's class about that sometime?" No one had every
asked me before. I couldn't say no to this man, he was and is a very
loyal friend. That got me started. that goes back about eight-nine
years. That's Bishop O'Dowd in Oakland. Its a Catholic School. Its
about 50% Catholic today, the rest is from the neighborhood. From thereon
in from once I went twice a year. These kids write me letters, 95-98%
of the kids write me letters after I speak with them. I spend about
2/3 of the day with them, 1/2 to 2/3 of the day. From there I went
to – and the same thing happened, similar – and I went
to Napa, Napa Middle School, and then Urban, and then Marin because
of my grandchildren. And the Peninsula, same thing, some friends.
I
felt very strong after I broke my own ice. It is more important to
do that than take care of my business. Because my business, I can handle
it but I want to do this now. I got involved in the Holocaust Museum
in Washington. I used to go once a month for twelve years. We've had
almost 20 million people go through that. Your relatives are very active
in it. You know that, right? I hope he is going to be the next Chairman,
he is so good at it. It's his uncle, your uncle! Your father's sister.
Susan and Michael Gelman?
Exactly.
They are very much involved in this and they are terrific.
Can you give an example of a memory or a story
that has come back to you later in life that you couldn't remember before?
From
before the war?
A memory of your time in the camps that you have put out
of your mind until recently?
When I talked to my friend in Paris, Max Libertie,
when I talked to him, we talked for about a half an hour on the phone, and
we talked about in generalities usually, more or less.
If
I smell chlorine I'm reminded immediately of the camp because the Germans
for some reasons dispensed chlorine all around. Everything was chlorine.
They thought it was for hygiene, I don't know what it was, but it was
supposed to been for hygiene. But chlorine, I get reminded immediately.
Also I get reminded when I smell burning hair because we were burning
so many human beings, in Warsaw especially. Nothing too specific because
it's so broad.
Is there anything about your experience in the
Holocaust that you find particularly hard to share?
No.
It's hard to share to the extent that it's incomprehensible how it
happened. I must tell you I take a shower every morning and you have
seen – I think I showed you my number on my arm – I have
to look because I couldn't believe it, I could not believe if I didn't
have the number and, in the shower – I was beaten up several
times so I have scars on my back – when I'm in the shower I have
to kind of turn. If it wasn't for the number I could not believe I
went through this. No one can understand. It is incomprehensible, that
you can kill six million Jews, five million Christians, Gypsies, homosexuals
and lesbians, they were all – and people who were in the insane
asylums, they cleaned out the insane asylums – so there were
eleven million people killed who were not soldiers. In total, I'm told,
there were fifty-two million people killed, because of Hitler. The
Russians, they killed a lot. Fifty-two million.
I
said – I have said recently especially – if we only had
had a situation like we have now in Iraq, where the Americans went
in there – boom, boom, boom – in four or five days, they
stopped this murderer, this killer, who killed probably a million people,
in one day he killed twenty thousand people in a town who didn't agree
with him, twenty thousand people he killed, gassed them all. If we
had only had twelve Marines in 1933, '34 or '35 who had gone to Berlin
and bombed the German headquarters there – because they weren't
that many at that time in the early part – it would have killed
Hitler and we would have saved fifty-two million lives. Today we would
do it.
People
begged Roosevelt to bomb the railroad lines to Auschwitz, and he says, "Well,
we'll worry about it when the war is over." I was there when this
government – Roosevelt was President – turned two ships
around, they were on the East Coast. The main ship was the St.
Louis. There are books written about it. There were 840-850 people
on those boats. They turned them around because they wouldn't let them
into this country, 850 lives. I was in Europe still in 1942 and we
emptied the boats and they went on the box cars to Auschwitz. In 1942,
I think it was. Roosevelt wouldn't let them in. Those things have changed,
thank God. These are things you find out afterwards, in those days
we didn't know about it, but I knew that these people had to come back
to Europe, their boats were turned back.
Did you feel like you started a new identity from
your past?
Not
a new identity. New life? Yes. My life started – my real life
where I had a purpose and a future – was when I came to this
country. I didn't have much future in Europe. If I had stayed there
I would have been OK I suppose. But I wanted to get out. I had another
reason because my only relative, my mother's brother, lived in San
Francisco. They lived there for going back about almost 100 years that
family. But no, it taught me what I was just talking about, that I
was accepted here. I was accepted when I came back to Holland too.
But I didn't feel a future, it was too much, it was too heavy hanging
over my head.
Let
me tell you, frankly, the first 30 some odd years I didn't talk about
the Holocaust. My kids didn't know. I didn't want my kids to be burdened
with it. And you know them. I didn't talk about it. Now I talk about
it a lot. I go to five-six schools right now. I talk to people your
age. You have no idea how those kids in the schools – I am going
to Oakland to Bishop O'Dowd, I go to Napa Middle School, I go to Urban
School, I go to school in Tiburon, I go to a school down in the Peninsula,
I can't think of the name right now – these are average American
kids who all of the sudden are asking, "What the Hell happened
in the Second World War?" Their parents weren't asking that, this
is a new generation. It's phenomenal. There is a generation between
the ones who fought there – the Second World War – and
the kids of today, the 15 and 16 year olds. In the middle they weren't
as interested.
Now
there is enormous interest. When I talk to the schools – like
I am going to Napa Middle School again in a couple of weeks – I
get an average of 130-40 kids in the class. Ninety percent of the children
from Bishop O'Dowd, – where I have 120-30-40 kids every year
twice a year – 90% of the kids write me letters. They go home
and say, "We told our parents, they couldn't believe all the things
we told them." Because they hadn't paid any attention to it. There
is a new generation in this country of highly intelligent young people.
It's really heart warming. I appreciate so much that you people have
an interest in this. It's very important. Because if we don't, God
knows what can happen, it can happen again.
I
am not talking about the Jews alone. Look what is happening in Africa,
they are killing thousands of them in religious fights in Somalia I
think, isn't it? Horrible, horrible. Nobody says a word! Nobody says
anything! They are killing thousands! In the Philippines thousands
of them are being killed over the last couple of years. In religious
wars. These are not people who have big homes. They are middle class
and lower income level people who are being killed because of their
religion. Most are Christians that are being killed by the Moslems.
It is sad to say, and I don't mean to be prejudiced, but I am on this
issue. It isn't fair. They should leave these people alone! In Egypt
Christians are not safe in Egypt. Certainly not in Saudi Arabia and
the others. We have something to really value and be proud of and protect
in this country. And we are doing it. Forgive me for being so outspoken
but I feel very strong about it. It is you guys, you young guys, you
got to carry the torch.
Thank you, Thank you.
Thank
you all for listening. I hope you'll do well and graduate and go to
college, I hope. You all have families so, you'll do well, you're in
a good school. [wrap-up]
If
you have any questions, you can always call me.
Thank you very much.
Thank you all.
|
